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Todd Gastaldo
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 Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:23 am Post subject: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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Currently, Americas MDs are NOT behaving as physicians.
Americas MDs are behaving as CRIMINALS, senselessly closing birth canals and
gruesomely manipulating most babies' spines - among other obvious crimes...
See Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108
As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.
ARE CHIROPRACTORS PHYSICIANS?
"Currently, 30 states permit doctors of chiropractic to refer to themselves
as 'chiropractic physicians.'"
--James Edwards, DC, Chairman, ACA Board of Governors
http://www.chiroweb.com/columnist/edwards/index.html
OPEN LETTER (archived for global access***)
James Edwards, DC
Chairman
Board of Governors
American Chiropractic Association
Board officer, ACA-PAC
Austin, Texas
jamesedwards@www.jamesedwards.com
Jim,
You wrote:
"Recently, Congressman Don Manzullo (D-IL) introduced HR 2560 in the U.S.
House of Representatives...Chiropractors would be removed from the
definition of 'physician' under §1861(r) of the Social Security Act."
http://www.chiroweb.com/columnist/edwards/index.html
When I got the Dorland's definition of "chiropractic" changed, Dorland's
Chief Lexicographer Douglas Anderson also changed the Dorland's definition
of "doctor" at my request. He took the opportunity to include not just
graduates of chiropractic colleges but graduates of other health profession
colleges (dentists, vets, podiatrists, etc.)
Given what's at stake, I will now work to get the Dorland's definition of
"physician" changed. (I hope ACA will not try to screw me again. See the
postscript.)
MD criminals should NOT be allowed to perpetuate their political power and
their massive spinal manipulation crime all the while attempting to
monopolize the term "physician."
Their placing themselves on the "physician" pedestal is a big reason they
are being allowed to commit their obvious crimes unmolested.
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
todd@chiromotion.com
PS After my definition of chiropractic was published in two consecutive
editions of Dorland's, ACA dishonestly attempted censor my BROADSCOPE
definition of chiropractic (which I derived from DD Palmer via the 1966 ACA
Commission for the Principles of Chiropractic).
ACA attempted to substitute the late Ed Maurer's NARROWSCOPE
"neuromusculoskeletal" definition.
Fortunately, ACA was unsuccessful. My BROADSCOPE definition of chiropractic
was published in a third edition of Dorland's.
See One SHORT post per day - help make CHIROPRACTIC HISTORY...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2098
Jim, the American Chiropractic Association and its esteemed Chairman are
still silent accessories to the massive obstetric birth crimes which include
a massive MD spinal manipulation crime.
Why, Jim?
Are you hoping that ACA silence will earn political plums?
One last note...
You wrote:
You wrote:
"The AMA urges all physicians to insist on being identified as physicians,
and to sign only those professional or medical documents identifying them as
such. The AMA will review and revise its own publications, as necessary, to
conform with its House of Delegates' policies on physician identification
and physician reference, and will refrain from any definition of physicians
as health care providers. The AMA supports seeking immediate modification of
the Social Security laws to change the definition of a physician to conform
with AMA policy. The AMA will seek legislation prohibiting the use of the
term 'physician' as a descriptor other than in the context of a medical
doctor (MD) or doctor of osteopathy (DO) (Res. 243, A-91; Reaffirmed BOT
Rep. I-93-25; Reaffirmed Sub. Res. 712, I-94; Res. 241, A-97; emphasis
added)."
My preference would be to entirely ABOLISH titular etiquette entirely. But
words are power and "physician" and "doctor" are power words. Until MDs
join me in my abolish-titular-etiquette sentiment I will work to ensure that
those non-cutting/non-drugging physicians known as DCs are acknowledged as
the chiropractic physicians they are whereever and whenever possible.
Again, MD criminals should NOT be allowed to perpetuate their political
power and their massive spinal manipulation crime all the while attempting
to monopolize the term "physician."
As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.
See again: Johns Hopkins breast/vagina/penis power! (How America can
INSTANTLY save
$200 million per year...)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2108
Thanks for reading,
Sincerely,
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
todd@chiromotion.com
******This post will be instantly archived for global access at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2111
Within 24 hours it
will be in the google archive. Search
http://groups.google.com for "Are chiropractors physicians?" |
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Jeff
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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Considering that the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
science, I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
physicians. In addition, chiropractors do not have the in-depth training
that physicians about the human body or appropriate training such as
residency.
Jeff |
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giselle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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Jeff wrote:
| Quote: | Considering that the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
science, I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
physicians. In addition, chiropractors do not have the in-depth training
that physicians about the human body or appropriate training such as
residency.
|
They do provide a service though. I used to think that they
were total quacks. But, after working with a personal injury
lawyer, I've seen a suprising number of mutual referrals
between neurologists and chiroporactors as well as mutual
respect. In a sense, chiropractors bridge the gap between
physical (or massage) therapists and physicians. Some people
are highly comforted by their services. Whether the placebo
effect is the main modus operandi or not remains unknown. |
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Jeff
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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"giselle" <giselle@atlantic.not> wrote in message
news:a7F1b.668$qJ6.452236@monger.newsread.com...
| Quote: | Jeff wrote:
Considering that the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by
medical
science, I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call
themselves
physicians. In addition, chiropractors do not have the in-depth training
that physicians about the human body or appropriate training such as
residency.
They do provide a service though. I used to think that they
were total quacks. But, after working with a personal injury
lawyer, I've seen a suprising number of mutual referrals
between neurologists and chiroporactors as well as mutual
respect. In a sense, chiropractors bridge the gap between
physical (or massage) therapists and physicians. Some people
are highly comforted by their services. Whether the placebo
effect is the main modus operandi or not remains unknown.
|
I agree that some chiropractors provide valuable services. However,
physical therapists, occupational therapists, dentists, psychologists and
social workers all provide extremely important services. But they aren't
physicians either.
And I don't see how chiropractors bridge a gap between physical therapists
and physicians. Physical therapists are highly trained professionals how
understand anatomy and physiology from their coursework in school.
Jeff |
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Orac
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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No.
They are not physicians.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
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|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?" |
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Mein
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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In article <a7F1b.668$qJ6.452236@monger.newsread.com>,
giselle@atlantic.not says...
| Quote: | Jeff wrote:
Considering that the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by medical
science, I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call themselves
physicians. In addition, chiropractors do not have the in-depth training
that physicians about the human body or appropriate training such as
residency.
They do provide a service though.
|
Yeah, a quack service.
| Quote: | I used to think that they were total quacks.
|
Used to? They ARE. Your mind is going backwards.
| Quote: | But, after working with a personal injury
lawyer, I've seen a suprising number of mutual referrals
between neurologists and chiroporactors as well as mutual
respect. In a sense, chiropractors bridge the gap between
physical (or massage) therapists and physicians.
|
Personally, I'd put chiropractors below physical therapists and massage
therapists, in roughly the same category as fortune tellers and
astrologers and faith healers. You know, the KOOK category.
| Quote: | Some people
are highly comforted by their services. Whether the placebo
effect is the main modus operandi or not remains unknown.
|
Heh. They might as well save their money and pray to Jesus. It will be
just as effective. |
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Jeff
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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(...)
| Quote: | Personally, I'd put chiropractors below physical therapists and massage
therapists, in roughly the same category as fortune tellers and
astrologers and faith healers. You know, the KOOK category.
|
Chiropractors have been shown to improve back pain. For a few people with
very specific conditions, some chriopractors do a wonderful service. (I
think good physical therapy would be just as effective). However,
considering that chiropractic is based on theories that are not in any way
backed by science, I think the work would be better off without them.
(...) |
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giselle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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Mein wrote:
| Quote: | Used to? They ARE. Your mind is going backwards.
|
There is no need to be insulting. After you've
gone through approximately 100 m of paperwork
wherein neurologists and sports physicians send
their injured patients to chiropractors, you might
see things a little differently, too. I would not have
believed it myself until I saw it. I didn't say that
chiropractors accomplished anything. I just said that
they provide a service. Some people find value in it. |
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Howard McCollister
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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"giselle" <giselle@atlantic.not> wrote in message
news:E_M1b.789$if4.445883@newshog.newsread.com...
| Quote: | Mein wrote:
Used to? They ARE. Your mind is going backwards.
There is no need to be insulting. After you've
gone through approximately 100 m of paperwork
wherein neurologists and sports physicians send
their injured patients to chiropractors, you might
see things a little differently, too. I would not have
believed it myself until I saw it. I didn't say that
chiropractors accomplished anything. I just said that
they provide a service. Some people find value in it.
\ |
Many physcians send some patients to chiropracters, including me. However,
it's been my experience that this is done, not because the chiropracters
have specific medical treatments that are more effective, but because
chiropracters are generally less constrained by scientific honesty. They can
do a great song and dance for the patient and really make it believable. The
resultant placebo effect is significant and can "cure" many patients that
haven't responded to allopathic diagnosis and treatment primarily because
their symptoms are either entirely psychological, or psychologically
augmented symptoms of real physical complaints.
HMc
> |
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Rich Shewmaker
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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--
"Howard McCollister" <hmac@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3f47a803$0$68929$45beb828@newscene.com...
| Quote: |
"giselle" <giselle@atlantic.not> wrote in message
news:E_M1b.789$if4.445883@newshog.newsread.com...
Mein wrote:
Used to? They ARE. Your mind is going backwards.
There is no need to be insulting. After you've
gone through approximately 100 m of paperwork
wherein neurologists and sports physicians send
their injured patients to chiropractors, you might
see things a little differently, too. I would not have
believed it myself until I saw it. I didn't say that
chiropractors accomplished anything. I just said that
they provide a service. Some people find value in it.
\
Many physcians send some patients to chiropracters, including me. However,
it's been my experience that this is done, not because the chiropracters
have specific medical treatments that are more effective, but because
chiropracters are generally less constrained by scientific honesty. They
can
do a great song and dance for the patient and really make it believable.
The
resultant placebo effect is significant and can "cure" many patients that
haven't responded to allopathic diagnosis and treatment primarily because
their symptoms are either entirely psychological, or psychologically
augmented symptoms of real physical complaints.
HMc
|
Yes, chiropractors get referred those annoying patients with somatic
disorders and frustrating chronic pain patients. It's unfortunate that there
are not more pain centers available for the chronic pain people. And it's
especially unfortunate that doctors are not trained to manage somatic
disease and hypochondria. Perhaps if there were real treatment available,
these unfortunate people would not get sent to have their wallets vacuumed
by greedy chiropractic quacks.
--Rich |
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Beverly Erlebacher
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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In article <E_M1b.789$if4.445883@newshog.newsread.com>,
giselle <giselle@atlantic.not> wrote:
| Quote: | Mein wrote:
Used to? They ARE. Your mind is going backwards.
There is no need to be insulting. After you've
gone through approximately 100 m of paperwork
wherein neurologists and sports physicians send
their injured patients to chiropractors, you might
see things a little differently, too. I would not have
believed it myself until I saw it. I didn't say that
chiropractors accomplished anything. I just said that
they provide a service. Some people find value in it.
|
In some parts of the world, the work chiropractors do is very similar
to that of physiotherapists, and similarly effective for appropriate
problems. There's a small subset of chiropractors in North America
who work this way, and doctors are often pleased to refer patients
to them. These chiros treat lower back pain by teaching the patient
methods and exercises to reduce pain and prevent continuing and repeat
injury. Chiropractic manipulation cannot affect the spine itself, but
can relieve some of the pain caused by muscle spasms that can occur in
response to disk injuries.
It's true that the most common lower back problems will improve
significantly in a few months if the patient doesn't aggravate them,
but they will also recur. This gives many chiropractors a devoted
following and a steady income - they relieve the pain while the injury
heals itself, and the next time the patient "throws his back out" he
comes back for another course of treatment, with perhaps some routine
"preventative" treatments in between as well. Lower back pain can
really degrade quality of life and some pain relief without chronic
use of drugs is preferable to none.
Unfortunately, most chiros are not like the most ethical ones in the
first paragraph, or even like the ones who have the sense to limit
themselves to the few conditions they can treat reasonably effectively
like those in the second. They range from honestly self-deluded
magical thinkers to the most cynical of sociopaths preying on the sick,
ignorant and desperate to inflate their egos and fill their pockets.
Some years ago there was a chiro on this list who belonged to a new
organization of chiros who ascribe to the methods and goals of those
in the first paragraph. Several physicians on the list were very
interested and said that if they could find such practitioners locally
they would refer patients to them.
I suspect that the chiros the physicians in Giselle's documents referred
to were of the first and/or second type. Unfortunately, such chiros can
be hard to find, and in many areas, most chiros are out and out quacks,
and sometimes dangerous ones. |
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David Wright
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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In article <bi7odt$6mh@library2.airnews.net>,
Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
And I don't see how chiropractors bridge a gap between physical therapists
and physicians. Physical therapists are highly trained professionals how
understand anatomy and physiology from their coursework in school.
|
Subluxations aside, what is your basis for implying that chiropractors
don't understand anatomy? Are they telling us the leg bone is
connected to the arm bone?
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT) |
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Jeff
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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"David Wright" <wright@clam.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:vgQ1b.822$1M3.400@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: | In article <bi7odt$6mh@library2.airnews.net>,
Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
And I don't see how chiropractors bridge a gap between physical
therapists
and physicians. Physical therapists are highly trained professionals how
understand anatomy and physiology from their coursework in school.
Subluxations aside, what is your basis for implying that chiropractors
don't understand anatomy? Are they telling us the leg bone is
connected to the arm bone?
|
I did not imply that chiropractors don't understand anatomy. Rather, if they
think that the main cause of disease is spinal problems, their understanding
of physiology and pathology is why off, IMHO:
http://www.chirobase.org/01General/modde.html.
While many physical therapists mmight not have as comprensive training in
anatomy and physiology, at least the training they have is based on
scientifically verifiable principles. While phyisical therapists and
physicians have different professional training and different ways of
helping people, the gap between PTs and physicians is not one that needs to
be filled, espeically by quacks.
Jeff |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bi6nm0$5rj@library2.airnews.net...
| Quote: | Considering that the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by
medical
science, I don't think
Jeff
|
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Are chiropractors physicians? |
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"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bi7odt$6mh@library2.airnews.net...
| Quote: |
"giselle" <giselle@atlantic.not> wrote in message
news:a7F1b.668$qJ6.452236@monger.newsread.com...
Jeff wrote:
Considering that the theory behind chiropractic is not supported by
medical
science, I don't think chiropractors should be allowed to call
themselves
physicians. In addition, chiropractors do not have the in-depth
training
that physicians about the human body or appropriate training such as
residency.
They do provide a service though. I used to think that they
were total quacks. But, after working with a personal injury
lawyer, I've seen a suprising number of mutual referrals
between neurologists and chiroporactors as well as mutual
respect. In a sense, chiropractors bridge the gap between
physical (or massage) therapists and physicians. Some people
are highly comforted by their services. Whether the placebo
effect is the main modus operandi or not remains unknown.
I agree that some chiropractors provide valuable services. However,
physical therapists, occupational therapists, dentists, psychologists and
social workers all provide extremely important services. But they aren't
physicians either.
And I don't see how chiropractors bridge a gap between physical therapists
and physicians. Physical therapists are highly trained professionals how
understand anatomy and physiology from their coursework in school.
Jeff
Jeffie has not researched this. |
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